Article for you torque monster stroker dreamers

Engine, Transmission & Driveline

  1. 70bigblockdodge

    70bigblockdodge Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    It's in this months Hemmings muscle machines.
    Holy $&!? They are proud of their work.
    Nevermind I see where your at.
     
  2. Cazman

    Cazman Member FCBO Gold Member

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    I don’t think it can be done cheaper. I had it quoted at multiple shops. Hughes preps a block for almost 2,000.
     
  3. jct

    jct Senior Member FCBO Gold Member

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    The machine shop i used for my top end work quoted me around 5000 for him to rebuild my short block, whenever I chose to do so.
     
  4. twostick

    twostick Senior Member

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    Good work takes time and time is money.

    How long do you suppose it takes to clean, prep, and then deck, square and bore and hone?

    Kevin
     
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  5. Cazman

    Cazman Member FCBO Gold Member

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    I do not know, but I learned something when I was in the shop.

    1. Our blocks suck. Well, not really but, they are usually not square. Also, to get zero deck with most rotating combos, more has to come off the top than usual. So, that is more passes on the milling machine or more money. $$
    2. To align hone the mains, they actually mill a bit off the main caps making the bore smaller, then hone the bore bigger to spec. More involved than I thought. They took their time and squared it all - mains to bore - to deck. $$
    3. I had them mock up the 440 Source rotating assembly, making sure my Chinese friends did their job and then the shop was able to hone and deck just to right specs. $$ All I have to do now is put the thing together.

    This is the first engine build of mine where I am doing everything right. I have done builds, but they were not going to have as much HP, so I threw them together - so to speak. All and all, I think my block is better now than when in left the factory.
     
  6. MEV

    MEV Member

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    Not trying to argue the value of quality machine work, however, as i have stated before, i did not do anything to my 505/512 but bore the block with a portable boring machine, hell, we didn't even use torque plates. It was not decked, squared or anything else. i used a blanced 440 source rotating assembly. i dont feel like i did the build any injustice in not having this done. There is a lack of quality machine shops here, and the closest one has a many many many month back log.

    here is a thread with my entire build and the kind of machine work we did.

    Where to look 440 short block.
     
  7. Cazman

    Cazman Member FCBO Gold Member

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    MEV, I remember your build and thought it was great. Put it together and run it!- done that many times. Never had a problem.

    I wanted a quench motor, so I had to deck it down anyway, then one thing led to another....
     
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  8. MEV

    MEV Member

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    I hear you. I see videos of those killer machine shops down in southern california and such, and wish i had access to machine shops like that around here. If i had any machinist skills like that, i think eastern washington would be a great business opportunity for a machine shop with CNC machining centers and the like.

    I am "garage" rebuilding a stroker big block chevy at the moment (489 cubic inches) for an old farm truck i bought, but this time i am going to use a torque plate when we bore it with the bolt-on boring machine! I feel all fancy!
     
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  9. bajajoaquin

    bajajoaquin Senior Member

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    I am likely to get my rebuild work done in TJ. At the low power (per cubic inch) numbers I’m looking for, I’m thinking I’ll be ok. I considered buying a boring bar like MEV used then selling it afterwards but then I remembered that I never finish those projects.

    It’s one of the reasons I’m agonizing so much over the combo. I have access to a good shop at a good rate, but they aren’t performance engine builders. I’ve got to make the parts choices on my own.
     
  10. Cazman

    Cazman Member FCBO Gold Member

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    My machine shop is not really a MOPAR shop, so they did not have many opinions on the parts, but they do good machine work. I feel that using places like 440 Source and Hughes that have already figured out the recipes really help.
     
  11. bajajoaquin

    bajajoaquin Senior Member

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    Yes, agreed. It’s the upside of “everything is made in China”

    :)
     
  12. 70bigblockdodge

    70bigblockdodge Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    If it is properly apart when dropped off about 5-10min to load it into the machine, about the same is they are still hot tanking it. Then the dishwasher does it's thing for ? cycle. Hot tank is usually overnight more if you dropped of a particularly nasty piece.
    Pretty sure these are hand in hand. You will be correcting angle and slope of of original machine work, then cutting it further to achieve final deck height, these need to be the same left bank to right bank so you turn the block 90°. Boring is all done in a line on the machine not set up and removed each hole, same with honing. Deck plates are a good idea if your looking for every last bit, IMHO with five bolts surrounding each cylinder not 4, the distortion on a big block is less, besides are you really going to have ring sealing problems at 550hp and 10:1 compression on the way to dairy Queen? Now if you hard block it, twist it to 7500 rpm and the squeeze is at 14+:1 sure you need everything you can get. If the shop has them, by all means.
    If the mains looked good on the way out and the caps still have a good register, the original crank spun smooth upon disassembly, (you did check), and your not putting a girdle on the caps the align hone is ok, it can only be straight there is not super, super straight.
    His "lot of little things" was more involved, they put the engine together and measured everything. There is your money.
    I guess.$800 isn't to bad and he is getting the works done to it.
     
  13. twostick

    twostick Senior Member

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    Deck and square is an involved process. You have to machine the decks flat, then put the crank in with pistons in 4 corners to measure what needs to come off to zero it and then disassemble and put it back on the machine to cut it. Now a Roteller might speed up the process but it also costs mondo dollars to buy and tool one up.

    Kevin
     
  14. 70bigblockdodge

    70bigblockdodge Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    Flat is flat, then you use math and measurments. 1/2 stroke + rod length+ compression height needs to equal the deck height to be zero deck, after you have made the deck square and parallel to the crank centerline then just remove the needed material to bring it down to zero.
    Measure twice cut once.
    Or you can mock it up and use a belt sander to make the deck level with the piston.
    I'm not trying to argue but you can always make your job sound more difficult.
    You and I can step by step a ride down the street and it will sound like we will never get there.
     
    Last edited: Mar 8, 2019
  15. commando1

    commando1 Mr. Natural FCBO Gold Member

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    Please say you are being facetious PLEEEZE!
     
  16. PontiacJim

    PontiacJim Member

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    He is serious. This may be him in this YouTube Video milling the head on sandpaper - timeframe 4:20.

    Of course a block would need 2 people to move it back and forth and a couple months, or years, and a lot of beer to mill each bank of cylinders down .080" to get a zero deck, but it could be done on the table saw surface.

    Personally, I live in a region/city where we have electricity & machine shops, so I have a machinist use power tools to do the job which saves me a lot of time and gets the car back on the road faster.
     
  17. 70bigblockdodge

    70bigblockdodge Old Man with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    Well, ?..... Yes.
    Poking Kevin with a stick so to speak.
    The dude with the table saw is doing a aluminum head, so goes quick.
    I guess this is as good of a spot to mention that I put a .030 piston in the #5 hole in my Chargers std. bore 440. How you ask? Easy, some hours (and beer) with long board body work sand paper strips. After 1 1/2 seasons and ~3000 mi still hauling ass, sucking up the abuse and returning almost 15 mpg with a borrowed carburetor.
    Machine shop my ass!
    I could also mention it is a 70 rotating assembly (except the 80s replacement piston), a 1966 block, 1976 heads, and free headers, and cam.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2019
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  18. cantflip

    cantflip Old Jagoff with a Hat FCBO Gold Member

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    :rofl: BIG SPENDER :rofl::thumbsup:
     
  19. bulldogchesty

    bulldogchesty Senior Member

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    I just read the article.
     
  20. PontiacJim

    PontiacJim Member

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    Read the same article while at my local bookstore yesterday. I hate to be negative, but I am not buying the HP/TQ numbers ONLY because from what I thought I read was the heads were stock iron heads. The $1200 rebuild is about right for a good complete rebuild on stock heads - no major porting or bowl work.

    If there had been some aftermarket aluminum heads flowing 300 plus CFM's, maybe. But as I recall, they were indeed iron heads?

    The cam specs, and a flat tappet hydraulic at that, seem too small. I would suspect at least a roller with bigger numbers which would have pushed your RPM's figures higher up the scale. And with that, a 750CFM carb would have choked it.

    The 440 Six Pack was factory rated at 390HP @4,700 RPM's and 490TQ @ 3,200 RPM's. So adding 60 more cubes and going with a smaller carb raises the dyno numbers that much?

    I know the 440 stokers can really crank out some power and can achieve these numbers, but with a lot more race orientated parts.