Engine Removal Questions

[Joseph James]

I plan on sending my engine to Carolina Machine Engines for rebuild. Problem is getting the engine out and back in. I have never done a removal before. Is it something I can do solo? Is it worth trying to drop it out the bottom or pull it out?

My worry is getting transmission separated from the engine. Pull both at same time?

I have an estimate from a local shop for $1850 to do the job. My mechanic I have used for other vehicles is retiring, so I am kind of stuck.

 

[LocuMob]

I plan on sending my engine to Carolina Machine Engines for rebuild. Problem is getting the engine out and back in. I have never done a removal before. Is it something I can do solo? Is it worth trying to drop it out the bottom or pull it out?

My worry is getting transmission separated from the engine. Pull both at same time?

I have an estimate from a local shop for $1850 to do the job. My mechanic I have used for other vehicles is retiring, so I am kind of stuck.

If you have access to an engine hoist get it or have $250 to burn, buy one. It not terribly difficult to do yourself, just take your time and it will come out. I dropped the transmission down and separated the engine and transmission, leaving the torque converter with the trans, then pulled the engine out the top. I removed the radiator before hand to help the engine clear. I even left the hood on, which did have to be pushed up by hand while reinstalling the engine. Remove all the accessories off the front of the engine too, fan, alternator, p/s pump and A/C pump, whatever is there. Carb off as well. Takes a few hours but it isn't too complicated.

 

[Rapidtrans777]

There is a first time for everything...but the questions you ask lead me to believe you might be attempting something outside your skill set. Yes, you can do it yourself, an extra set of hands is nice but not necessary. The engine would come out from above. Yes, separate the transmission. If your car is clean, rust free, or has been recently disassembled/reassembled everything should come apart easily. If the drivetrain hasn't had a wrench on it for 40+/- years you better have the experience and tools to deal with the problems that will surface. Find a car friend that has pulled a motor and help you out.

 

[1978 NYB]

I just recently did mine. I got a performance crate engine from Carolina Machine Engines. It was easier to do with the hood off.

 

[Davea Lux]

I would strongly suggest that you find a copy of the FSM (Factory Service Manual) for your car before you start tearing into it. The service manual is available for free down load at www.mymopar.com. You will find the manual in the Tools/Reference section. Carefully read the sections relating to engine removal/installation.

Dave

 

[cbarge]

It is best to pull both out at the same time,then separate them afterwards.
Mark and bag everything!
Scribe around the hood bolts before removal so when the hood goes back on it will be back where it belongs.
Start at the top by removing the accessories,electrical and fluid related lines (Fuel,trans cooler,radiator)
The beauty of all Mopars big block or small block is removing the bolts at the exhaust flange.
If you break them they can be replaced. Rather see them break than fight with them
Once everything up top is undone,go under and remove the trans mount drive shaft and motor mounts.

The job can be done solo but strongly recommend a second person to help and also for safety reasons.
God forbid something happens and nobody around to get help.

You don't have to pull the front clip like I did.

 

[CBODY67]

IF you've never done this before, then paying somebody to do a quality job might be the totally most inexpensive way to get it done. The shop would have the necessary space to do all of these things, I suspect. The space you have MIGHT seem adequate . . . until it's too late and you need to move something to get something separated or similar. For best results, a TWO person job, typically. I have some friends that, in their younger days (pre-40s) who did this by themselves, but they were dealing with simpler Chevies and such. Fewer hoses to disconnect and such, for example. Trans-Dapt (or similar) makes a crank mechanism for the lift chain that can angle the engine/trans to get it all out as one piece in an easier fashion than doing it manually by your self.

"Common wisdom" would be to remove it from the top, taking off the hood and such (another TWO person labor operation!!), but sometimes mimicking the factory assembly line procedures can work out pretty well . . . IF you have a body-contact side-post lift. You'll need to make a holding fixture our of 1x12 wood, or similar, to hold the front frame unit securely so you can work on it all as needed. BUT you'll need a torsion bar removal tool, too.

On the issue of "body rise" if the extraction is done "normally", Chrysler had a special tool to put on the torsion bars to keep the car at ride height as the engine was removed. Kind of locked them in place so the body stayed level as the weight was removed from the front end. A side issue to be prepared for!

I might be getting older, but some of those things that were done when we were younger, stronger, and "still learning" will be best left to those who receive money to do those things, to me. These things were "new adventures" to watch my friends do, back then, which isn't the case for me, now. My friends that did these things usually did NOT do them solo, in most cases. "Mutual Aid" orientations were usually operative, back then.

BEFORE you get the engine out, make sure the engine shop will know it will be coming and when! It might take a bit more time to get things set-up to do this, but can save time in the ultimate mix of things. Ask your retiring mechanic for a good recommendation of another shop to do the remove/reinstall operations. Get THEM checked out fully before-hand, so the two schedules can be "windowed" to mesh well. Be "friends" with them so a good working relationship can happen. Make sure there is more to like about them than otherwise. Just like finding a good doctor. THEM having a good track record with earlier Chrysler products will be a big plus, to me, as Chryslers aren't assembled just like GM or Ford cars are done. Many similarities in engine removal/reinstalls, but some differences they might need to be aware of, which is where their combined experiences can come into play.

One other side issue is how the engine will get to the engine shop? And back to where the car is.

I understand keeping the car "local" to your location so you can do work on it as the engine is out getting done. BUT unless you have an empty 4-car garage/shop area to deal with, it can be a big compact mess, by observation. AND can tolerate the car being torn down in this location for probably a month as it all gets done.

I applaud your indicated energy and drive, BUT sometimes the "big stuff" needs to be done by those who've done it before and have the facilities/tools to make it happen as it needs to happen. In my earlier times, I'd watch others do things a time or two, study the FSM and compare that to what I'd seen, then plan things out in my mind BEFORE attempting it myself. When I did do it, I knew how things should go and tried to put my accumulated knowledge to work. It also gave me time to get the needed tools accumulated, too!

Get the brakes done FIRST. When you've got them done to your satisfaction, possibly uncovering other side issues to their poorer performance in the process, later you can focus on the engine rebuild in a more focused orientation. Do any related, engine-related research in the intermissions you'll have in the brake job situation. Then, you can enter into that phase of your proposed repair orchestration with a better frame of mind of things and how you desire them to be. One thing at a time, but "all in" on each phase when it happens.

The "My Last Car" orientation can be a good one, but one with problems down the road. One item revolves around access to knowledgeable technicians who "know and understand what they're looking at", in the future. Keeping an older car is nice for stress relief and such, but daily driving NEEDS to be done in something "expendable" or for which salvage yard parts are easily available. And, should you have some physical issues, something "the young 'uns" can get into and drive onto the oil change rack without you (or someone else) telling them how to drive your car. I'm in that mode now. Most of the guys in the shops now are from the "post-carburetor" era, much less "distributor points". Some are willing and eager to learn about the prior technologies, but some have no interest in that sort of thing, too.

Even if you're going into this rebuild "eyes open", you can still get blindsided by unexpected issues, by observation. Just be ready for those inevitable things, with a contingency plan when they might happen. Keep us posted on your progress.

Happy Holidays,
CBODY67

 

[Joseph James]

CBODY67 I will take your advice. After all, you can't beat a man at his trade. I've worked in the electrical trade 20 years. While a lot of people think they can do what I do, they really can't. I see this engine removal the same way. No substitute for experience and having proper tools to do the job.

There is a restoration garage 2 miles from me. They want $1850 to pull and reinstall. The quote I got on a stock "complete" rebuild is around $2700, which includes freight. Complete meaning they will reinstall intake manifold, oil pan, valve covers and timing chain cover. I talked with the salesman the other day about it.

I'm ok with the car as a daily driver. I can set points (first car was a 68 VW Beetle), carb is a new one. I have been driving vans for 20 years, which is why I wanted something fun to drive. I'm an electrician at an institution now and don't need a van anymore. If I get outside work, the Fury's trunk can hold my tools.

 

[FURYGT]

Just a thought. You are in NC and there are a lot of forum members in NC. Perhaps one of them with a lot of experience removing engines could do it for a lot less and maybe even let you help to learn what is involved. Consider posting a Help Wanted thread if none of your fellow NC forum members see this thread.

Having done this, having one or two extra people helping makes a bid difference. You can rent an engine hoist or buy one used or get a new one for a reasonable price at Harbor Freight. Depending on the year and make of your car, you may need a hoist with a long reach.

Having a lift makes it easier, otherwise get the car up high on jack stands. IMHO it is easier to pull the engine and trans at the same time. Air tools also help for speeding up the job and dealing with stubborn bolts etc.

 

[65sporty]

Lots of great advice here, as you know form your line of work there is no substitute for experience. I have the engine out of a 2010 Ford E-250 van right now at work, I will get a pic later, but when I had to change over the electrical panel at home from a old fuse panel to modern breakers I had a buddy that is a retired journeyman electrician come help me. His experience made the job go so smooth, he knew what tools where needed, he brought his generator so we had good lighting while the power was off. It's the little unforeseen things that always get in the way. Good luck which ever way you go.

Mentioned above was our members in NC, I don't want to speak for someone else, but Gary( @Wollfen ) may be able to help you out. Some of the NC guy's are a tight group helping each other. You may even make some new friends and you can never have too many of those.

 

[1970FuryConv]

HOOD
If you do remove the hood, I recommend a helper or several helpers. C-body hoods are heavy.

If someone has a recommendation for a harness to lift a hood, so that remove and install is a one-man job, I would like to know what it is and where you sourced it.

 

[65Fury440]

When you have the engine out, you will probably want to get in there with a pressure washer and do some cleaning.
See if the shop has that capability as well. Sometimes negotiating things up front are cheaper than negotiating as an upcharge.

I was renting a cherry picker for $50 a day because I didn't have room to store it the 99% time it wasn't in use. One popped up on Facebook Marketplace for $60 (paid $50) from a guy who used it for his engine swap. If you decide to do it yourself, you can save a couple bucks finding a good used hoist cheap.

All good advice in this thread. Take all the weight you can off with accessories, having that big block and trans all the way up in the air can make for some pucker moments, especially trying to pull it back over the core support. A helper would be a great .....help.

 

[Wollfen]

Lots of great advice here, as you know form your line of work there is no substitute for experience. I have the engine out of a 2010 Ford E-250 van right now at work, I will get a pic later, but when I had to change over the electrical panel at home from a old fuse panel to modern breakers I had a buddy that is a retired journeyman electrician come help me. His experience made the job go so smooth, he knew what tools where needed, he brought his generator so we had good lighting while the power was off. It's the little unforeseen things that always get in the way. Good luck which ever way you go.

Mentioned above was our members in NC, I don't want to speak for someone else, but Gary( @Wollfen ) may be able to help you out. Some of the NC guy's are a tight group helping each other. You may even make some new friends and you can never have too many of those.

I'm 350 miles away, bit of a drive i imagine.

 

[Joseph James]

Well, the mechanic who is about to retire told me earlier he had found an engine for $3K with a 7 year warranty. The only engine I can find with that warranty is at S and J engines and I can buy it with a mouse click for $1922 plus the core of $250. I think I may just go ahead and order it and have the shop down the road do the install. I have not found any bad reviews of S and J while I have found a ton of poor reviews on Jasper engines.

 

[1978 NYB]

Well, the mechanic who is about to retire told me earlier he had found an engine for $3K with a 7 year warranty. The only engine I can find with that warranty is at S and J engines and I can buy it with a mouse click for $1922 plus the core of $250. I think I may just go ahead and order it and have the shop down the road do the install. I have not found any bad reviews of S and J while I have found a ton of poor reviews on Jasper engines.

Even the performance crate engine I bought from CME has a warranty. They have quality engines. You pretty much get what you pay for.....

 

[CBODY67]

The one thing about Jasper engines, from what I saw several years ago, is that they supply you with everything that might be needed. Which probably explains their higher price. Lots of shops have their signs up, as an "authorized installation center" and they usually have a sales rep that comes around every so often.

I would always question that they'd get all of the right additional parts in the box with your engine, for what it's worth, rather than sourcing it all locally where it might be returned if not needed of a bad part could be exchanged. Be that as it may.

So, on the surface, the Jaspers look to be more expensive, but when it's all considered, you might well end up at the higher price anyway. Several side issues.

Key thing is that you are comfortable with the installation shop. A warranty can be good, but if the parts used were quality parts, the machine work and such were done well, if it fires and runs without any additional knocks/clangs, it'll probably run 100K miles in normal use just fine. BUT, I know of one exception to that situation, though, but it wasn't on a Chrysler engine.

Enjoy!
CBODY67

 

[Big_John]

There's a couple things that have been missed in all the advice.

First is to buy yourself an engine leveler. Yea, we've all done the job without one, but it does make things easier if you are pulling the trans at the same time. An engine stand is also a very good investment.

Second is the torsion bars..... The way the trans mount is built in a C body, it's an integral part of the rear torsion bar mount in the stub frame. To do it right, the torsion bar adjustment needs to be backed off so there is no tension on the torsion bars. Then you can remove the trans crossmember safely. If you don't do this, the tension will try to twist the rear of the stub frame and if there's any weakness from rust, it can possibly twist the frame into a pretzel... If nothing else, it makes removal and installation much easier.

So... My procedure is basically this....

Remove radiator and engine accessories (alternator, P/S pump etc.). With a big block car, I like to remove the water pump housing as it gives me more room. Take the fan off as a minimum. I like to remove the lower pulley too, but some people don't. Disconnect the carb linkage. Remove the carb so you don't break it. Good time to bolt the leveler on the engine.

Remove hood.

Jack the car up and place jack stands under the frame about where the firewall is.

Unbolt the exhaust head pipes from the manifolds. The head pipes can stay in the car.

I personally think that if you don't need to pull the trans, leave it in the car.... I would unbolt the converter from the flex plate, push the converter back in the bell housing as far as it goes and place a pair of vise grips on the lower part of the bellhousing to keep the converter from sliding forward.

Get the hoist in position.

From here, this is leaving the trans in the car.

Place a floor jack under the trans pan and unbolt the trans. I like to leave a couple loose bolts in the bellhousing that I can reach from above.

Remove the motor mount bolts.

Take up the tension on the hoist and remove the loose bellhousing bolts.

Pull the engine...

Once it's out, you can cut a 2 x 4 so it lays across the torsion bars and drill a couple holes (they can be big and sloppy) so you can slide a couple bolts in the bellhousing and then you can take the jack out from under the trans, allowing you to move the car etc.

If you want to remove the trans at the same time, just remove the driveshaft, speedo cable, cooler lines and back off the torsion bars. Put the hoist in place and place a floor jack under the trans. Remove the rear mount/crossmember. Place an old driveshaft yoke in the trans or, if you don't have one, put a plastic bag and rubber bands around the tailshaft. This will keep trans fluid from making a mess on the floor when you pull it out.

Take up the tension on the hoist and remove the motor mount bolts and pull the engine. The leveler will let you angle the engine so the trans can get by the firewall. Watch the tailshaft of the trans once it's out. It gets swinging and can take a windshield out or dent a cowl up.

I think that's about it... Just never get under the engine once it's unbolted and supported only by the hoist. Take it slow and stop and check everything often as it comes up. Lower the engine when moving the hoist once it's clear of the car. Common sense goes a long way...

Oh... and make sure that you have enough travel in the hoist and chain to lift the engine up far enough AND lower the engine/trans combo to the ground... I've made this mistake! This is another reason that leaving the trans in the car can work out better... You only have to lower the engine to engine stand height if there's no trans attached.

Engine leveler.

 

[Ripinator]

I plan on sending my engine to Carolina Machine Engines for rebuild. Problem is getting the engine out and back in. I have never done a removal before. Is it something I can do solo? Is it worth trying to drop it out the bottom or pull it out?

My worry is getting transmission separated from the engine. Pull both at same time?

I have an estimate from a local shop for $1850 to do the job. My mechanic I have used for other vehicles is retiring, so I am kind of stuck.

When I removed the engine from my car, I followed the advice in this book to the letter:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/1557881901/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o03_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1

It gives step-by-step instructions for doing exactly what you want to do with your engine removal. It also covers the re-install and it has a lot of other information regarding MOPAR big blocks, etc.

Also, it cost me over $4K to get my 440 engine properly rebuilt - including the parts. That included rebuilt heads, new cam, lifters, new exhaust valves, pistons and all the other related parts. I just don't see how you can buy a properly rebuilt engine for under $2500, but maybe you'll get lucky. . ..

 

[livininharrow]

I plan on sending my engine to Carolina Machine Engines for rebuild. Problem is getting the engine out and back in. I have never done a removal before. Is it something I can do solo? Is it worth trying to drop it out the bottom or pull it out?

My worry is getting transmission separated from the engine. Pull both at same time?

I have an estimate from a local shop for $1850 to do the job. My mechanic I have used for other vehicles is retiring, so I am kind of stuck.

all of the advice from forum members so far is priceless. good luck whether you do it yourself or have the job done by a professional. here is a thought maybe your retiring mechanic wouldn't mind sitting back in a chair and guiding you through the process letting you get dirty and turning the wrenches. even if you paid him 20 bucks an hour cash and a case of beer you would be way ahead of the game.

 

[david hill]

First of , I agree w/ Ripinator and Big John Although I would leave the trans in, support it w/ a floor jack during removal and support the trans at the front bellhousing w/ 4 by 4 blocks while the engine is out. A good quality rebuild done properly will cost 3500.00 to 4000.00. No matter what the warranty is, a cheap rebuild is just what it is. As a retired ASE cert. engine builder good quality rebuild will perform very well at 15000, 30000 as it did at 10000 miles w/ no leaks, no oil consumption. As for Jasper Engines, that's a BIG FAT don't due. There quality is low any reliability just isn't there. Jasper Engines made me a good living due to failures that weren't covered or were out of warranty. Have the engine shipped w/ the timing cover, oil pan and intake installed. minimizes dirt and debris This is very doable. I'll get off my soap box now. If you have any questions, PM me.